In the September 1980 issue of Gambling Times we published an interview with Leonard Steinberg (pronounced steenberg), Chairman of Stanley Leisure, after sharing a delightful lunch with him and the late George Jessel, Toastmaster General of the United States, at the Friars Club in Beverly Hills, California. George was a member of the Board of Directors of Gambling Times Incorporated. At the time Stanley Leisure (betting shops and casinos in England) was a very profitable company, and based upon the fact that they were a privately held corporation, Leonard was “The Biggest Bookie in the World”, which was also the title of the story. This feature is a reprise of that 21 year-old interview, bringing you up to date on the fourth largest gaming establishment in the United Kingdom.
Gambling Times: Nice to see you again, old friend. It’s hard to believe it’s been over two decades since last we met.
Leonard Steinberg: Good to see you too, but I recognized you right off.
GT: More than 20 years ago Stanley Leisure was a large concern, how big are you now?
LS: In terms of employment we have gone from about 1,000 employees to nearly 6,000. There are 31 casinos in our Gaming Division, including 3 London casinos, which were recently acquired, including Crockford’s. We have about 650 Betting Shops in different jurisdictions including: North Ireland, the Isle of Man, the Republic of Ireland, Jersey (Channel Islands), and we even take football bets in Italy. We have 31 casinos in the UK and our Internet casino located in Dominica. We also have a few other Internet sportsbooks and casinos.
GT: In 1980 you were the world’s largest independent bookmaker, then you took Stanley Leisure public in 1986. How do you rank with the competition today?
LS: Stanley Leisure is 4th behind Ladbrokes, William Hill, and Coral Leisure.
GT: How has Stanley Leisure done financially since our last meeting, when you were doing about £70 million per year in turnover?
LS: In fiscal year 2000 we did £571 million in turnover, which approached twice the 1996 turnover of £318 million. I am delighted to report that our profit before tax was up 32% to £31.1 million and earnings per share rose 31% to 19.1p over the last fiscal year.
GT: In 1980 Stanley Leisure was exploring many other areas of interest, are you still diversifying your business holdings?
LS: We have an expression in England, “Stick to the knitting,” which describes our current corporate policy. At this time we are sticking to betting shops and casinos, along with our Internet versions of these.
GT: In 1980 you spoke of some customers who were big winners to the tune of £40,000, how does that compare today?
LS: At our betting shops last year we had two punters who won over £200,000 each and one who won £1.7 million. Fortunately he has come back and recently dropped £170 thousand. In our casinos we recently had one winner who walked away with over £3 million. You know, even though this is a business, in a way it is still very personal at those levels. Everyone likes to win, which is probably why I’m in this business. The real secret of success in this business is to increase the frequency of the action. This is basically the same in any type of business.
GT: Your 1980 hours of operation were 10:30 AM to 6:30 PM; what are they today?
LS: They’re pretty much the same.
GT: In 1980 you belonged to a Greyhound group called BAGS; as I recall there were over 100 greyhound tracks in the UK.
LS: I’ve since retired from BAGS, and, unfortunately, Greyhound tracks are now down to about 50. We’ve had a 20% upturn in greyhound betting at our shops. The margins are much higher from greyhound racing. There’s been serious trouble lately from foot and mouth disease in this country. When it appears in a region, racing is normally cancelled to avoid spreading the disease. Last year we had some 180 meetings cancelled.
GT: Are there still fewer horse racing tracks?
LS: Horseracing is usually stable with the all-weather racetracks.
GT: In 1980 we discussed some potential problems with the payout rule; was it changed?
LS: Things are much better now under the new Act. It’s a lot easier to just write a check. The idea was to protect against possible money laundering, but we’ve never had a problem in this area.
GT: It used to be that a person needed to be registered at least 48 hours before he could gamble in a British casino; has that changed?
LS: It is now only 24 hours. The Gaming Review Body has made a thorough review of all gaming in the UK and has given the okay in all matters.
GT: In 1980 you had about 1 million members in your clubs; how many are there today?
LS: We are just over 2 million at this time.
GT: I understand that you have funded educational programs in the industry.
LS: Stanley Leisure has helped set up The Center for Gambling and Commercial Gaming, Higher Management Education program at the University of Salford.
GT: So, it’s clear that you want to continually improve your staffing, but what if an American wanted to work for Stanley Leisure?
LS: We have hired Americans and we would be delighted to accept applications from more.
